Author Topic: The Turning  (Read 2434 times)

Ralf Menzel

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The Turning
« on: April 23, 2008, 02:22:06 PM »
I´d like to start a new topic that rather belongs to the stance but I stand on my feet so I think it´s well posted here.
The point is were to put the most balance on?Some people say you have to turn on the heels,some say you must turn on the footbundel and some say most weight must be concentrated on the middle of the foot.
I think it´s very important to have the right idea because your stance and hence your stability and balance are depending to it.
I do believe we have to turn on the middle of the foot as well as we have to devide our weight 50 - 50 on our two legs.If you turn on your heels you are standing a little back leaned and you are feeling like you are standing on stalks.You have very low control of you balance while turning.
Besides try standing on on your heels centred within standing in a step. ;D The turned stance is standing in a step or called a "Ready for fight stance".
If you start getting into the ygkym you first bend your knees what means that you get a little deeper.
If you look down now your knees are covering your hole foot.Now you are balanced well and if you watch carefully you will notice that you can feel the pressure of your body is pressing your hole sole of the foot is pressed firm to the ground.If you are balanced on the heels you have a week and rocky stance.You can only feel the pressure point at your heels.Your floor space is 75 percent smaller than standing balanced on the middle of the foot.Everyone can test it on his own and should keep what works and leave what does not.
I think if you get pressed backward within chi sao you should let sink your weight a little more within your knees pointing towards your toes.
Now you are creating a strong forwarded force that´s directed properly to the ground.If you let sink your weight instead of counter pressing from below to above than nothing happens to your balance if the counter pressure suddenly dissapears. :o
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Gert-Jan Ketelaar

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 04:48:13 PM »
Ralf,

The weight 50-50 on the legs is correct. But the turning must be done 100% on the heels. If not you shift to much bodyweight around and lose power in the opposite direction. I have also my bodyweight in the heels and that makes a strong balance.

GJ
“The idea of VT is to hit first and hit hard.”

Mike v. Embden

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 10:49:56 PM »
Do you also put your weight on your heels when you are in your stance- doing SuiNimTao?

.......

Ralf Menzel

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 08:11:34 PM »
Hi Gert,

I´m rapt to feel the difference when you show it to me in person  ;D.I do believe very strong that you can show why this works better.I feel much more stable if I place my whole weight over my whole foot.If I want to turn then I would have to lean a little backward to displace my body mass above my heels.I think this could lead to rocking and imbalance.In addition I think I cannot turn exactly arround my body axxis (centreline).But actually I have to feel it in my own body how it works best.My experiences showed me that it works best for me to turn on the middle of the feet but my experience also taught me that you could make me rock like a drunken sailor  ;D. I will learn it perfectly when I´m with you in June.

Thanks alot for your advice

Ralf
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Gert-Jan Ketelaar

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2008, 02:34:00 PM »
Hey Ralf,

Yes demonstrating is always the best!

Two different things are mentioned here, one the turning point of the foot and second the dividing of the body weight.

The turning on the heel is really important, for many reasons, but most prominent the power of the body is directed in the correct way and the opponent has more trouble off-balancing you. Exactly shifting around the body axxis is also not possible, the axxis will always move a little. But we must stribe for perfection.

The weight of the body is more in the heel also but don't ask me how much percent. Important is to have as much weight downward to the ground through relaxation of the body. During the shift the whole foot has contact with the ground, but there is more pressure on the heel. Leaning backwards isn't so good.

The body axxis must stay vertical all the time,,,,,just like my wife always say when I leave the country for a few days of training ;D

All the best and see you soon,

GJ

“The idea of VT is to hit first and hit hard.”

Ralf Menzel

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 03:58:40 PM »
Hallo Gert,

I know spelling hairs in a forum isn´t really constructive but I think not everyone has the opportunity to visit you so that you can proof it personally.Nethertheless they like to know it exactly.So I give it a try to explain what I know about were the weight has to be stored.If you start the Siu Nim Tao you have to do two things first.You have to bend your knees to become a deep stance.Second you have to turn your feet inwards.If you look from above down to your kneecaps you will notice that they cover your toe tips.So while you were getting down within shuffling your kneecaps towards your toetips your whole bodymass is getting  displaced from your heels to above the middle of your feet.It´s impossible to have most or more of the weight stocked above the heels,not until you lean your upper body slightly backwarts.Moreover,if you turn with the pressure on the heels your turning look like the wiping of a windscreen wiper.Please don´t be angry with me Gert,I tell it so to you and to everyone else.It´s just as good as I understood it.I know,when I come to you to get proper lesson I will understand and learn it but please tell some things about my thoughts I just told now, so that other VT practitioners can learn from it,too.

THX for beeing patient :D
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Gert-Jan Ketelaar

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 09:27:10 AM »
Ha Ralf,

Like you said it isn't easy putting movements into exact explanations and words. Moving and explaning are different things.

But besides training ourselves we should use also the other ways of learning and helping us to have a deeper understanding of VTKF.

As well as gaining our own experience though training, also watching others, teaching, writing, reading and having open discussions helps to grow and eventually make the VTKF stronger in a wider perspective.

So in this light also don’t worry about going against my opinion. This is the purpose of forum.

I always appreciate people who don’t just follow, think things through and have their own ideas. I like diversity and people having their own identity and personality.
In a lot of groups that is many times not possible because a trainer lay his opinion so strong on his students with no room to breathe.

Then of course there are the differences in our individual body structures, talents, and not to forget mental institution.
This will influence our perspective and the way we express ourselves in VTKF.

Back to the topic of turning and weight distribution on the feet. Don’t forget that it all must work in full body speed and the dynamics of a fight situation.
Just keep your posture and spine straight up, and the weight problem will solve itself.
Like standing on rocky ground you don’t have to analyze the ground first in order to have balance, your body will solve that without knowing how.

See you soon,

GJ.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 09:36:20 AM by Gert-Jan Ketelaar »
“The idea of VT is to hit first and hit hard.”

Ralf Menzel

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Re: The Turning
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 05:46:36 PM »
Hi Gert,

quality will put it´s self through!Moreover the better is the goods enemy!If you would fear other oppinions you would show that you know that you´re wrong.If you know that you´re right you fear nothing and can proof it anytime to anyone.You will welcome competitions.I know that´s the reason why you don´t worry if I have doubts or other ideas.And I don´t worry because I know that I will learn it from you soon. ;D
A last game with thoughts.I made myself thougts today about the turning and I thought to myself that I probably expressed my thoughts in wrong words?How about the turning point (axis) is the middle of the feet but the centre of weight is positioned above the heels so that not to much pressure is weighing on the forefoot.
I don´t know, sounds that more possible to you?Besides I trained the two forms in denmark at the beach in very soft and deep sand.The way I turned worked very well for me  ::) But what would had happen if you had stressed my stance or turning I don´t know.That´s a dangerous matter of training alone or with much less educted training partners or students.They don´t know how to attack for real and so you can practice wrong or weak positions and when you get attacked for real on the streets the got beaten up your ass. :-[ .Okay I let lose at this point and are looking forward to meet you Gert!

See ya soon,also greetings to all members of the WSLVT family

Ralf
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