Author Topic: The Secret Part 2  (Read 5968 times)

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 06:35:24 PM »
Finally, I hope to demonstrate that few if any of these concepts originated with the Hong Kong experience and are not generally 'interpretive differences' of the Hong Kong masters. At least not always. This is were it gets confusing.
   However, comparison of these camps including William Cheungs style, with various main land VT such as Hung Fa Yi and Yeun Kay San show direct relationships with the most fundimental  points of HK experience in both varieties

Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 11:05:23 AM »
   So as mentioned previously, I wanted to show some experts demoing the suppossed 'failure' of the 'modified' or  the sidling tan sao. These pictures are from Wing Chun Jeet Kune Do a Compairison Vol. 1.by Master William Cheung and Master Ted Wong. They kinda weight the two out pound for pound but besides compairing JKD to WC, they also show differences between 'modified' and 'traditional'.In the  series the text speaks for itself. My point is clear. The supposedly faulty tool(tan sao) is being showed as week and easily collapsable...but it is being demoed from CENTER body structure. In this condition the structure of the tool will not hold up.If he was in the Side posted position as shown in earlier photos the tool is structually sound.

and the bottom of the page

   And finally the 'traditional' answer

    The final flaw in the whole logic is the idea that 'traditional' wing chun is the SOLE house that uses this structure and obviously, to everyone at this forum anyway, that's not even close to true.
    Next we are going to trace these structural arrangments back abit to see if there are any clues or proof of my claims.
  Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 11:05:53 PM »
   Here, I just want to reiterate that this is not the only difference by any means between the houses. But, like an atom, this structual point is the point that VT, in my opinion, cannot be broken down further without it being something else all together. The difference makes for two unique essences that guide nearly all other 'modifications'
    Both varieties are very sophisticated. Each has within it's own idiom a 'hard' and a 'soft' sub text and expressions.
    Although positioning is important in both they arrive at the plex from different paths.
    And again, most importantly, these  cannot be mixed because there is a specifice tool orientation and shape that is unique to each one and must be understood fully.
    But ,I think , can operate side by side.
    I mentioned somthing interesting in the drawings I posted earlier that relates to this theory. Did anyone notice it?
   
   Hoy Sum Fu
   
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 03:18:40 AM »
  O.K.
 Just to lead into the next thing, here are 2 pictures to compare structure.
The first is Yuen Kay San

I'll show more in another post but you can see this is a clear example of side body style.
 Here is a good picture of the Hung Fa Yi style. Plainly a center body construct.

Next, I'll show more examples of these and other mainland houses.
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 10:06:18 AM »
  So is it crazy, or am I starting to make a case? ;)
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2008, 05:42:20 PM »
   For clarity, most of the examples are  similar, tools like tan da but the theory applies to all tools: tan sao, bong sao, gaun sao,etc. It also changes the relationships of assembly moves like kwun sao, kau sao and gaan/ jom sao.
   If there is such a thing truely as an inferior kind of VT, it is the kind that mixes these two formats together. Many do.
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2008, 05:46:54 PM »
   Although the two don't mix I believe they are actually ment to be used side by side. The truely integreted system. The great GM Ip Man could move seamlessly between them automatically. His skill to the end was even in both methods showing that he cared for and valued both. This is my goal.
  Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2008, 06:03:10 PM »
 It's like having a machine gun with a grenade launcher. In many situations, if you use them simaltaniously you'll likely blow your own butt up. But it's nice to have both for their unique qualities that both come in handy in a fire fight.Where each is appropreate. ;)
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2008, 06:24:34 PM »
 ;)O.k. that wasn't a very good analogy. :D
I'm going to take a few days off to plan my next series of posts.
We've talked about the first and second ' chancilor' of VT. That being firstly, the core root.Then the elbow.
   The third chancilor is the wheels of this vehicle:The foot work.
   How do these two foundational structures influence foot work? Is there a 'progression' of  development here? How many kinds of foot work ARE there in VT??
Stablity vs. Interuptabiliy.WTF does that mean? How do footwork choices effect the 'body' of VT stratagy.
   This is a facinating aspect of VT.
    Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2008, 06:38:35 PM »
  And how do foot work choices effect the 'physics' and 'stress' of the structures.
   That will couple with kicking and the theories therein.
  I will also show more picture examples of the different varieties.
     Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

James Roller

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2008, 05:28:56 PM »
Thomas,

  Not to take this thread off track, but did you get my email?  If not please email me at rolls9@hotmail.com regarding your PM to me today, thanks:)

I can't seem to reply to your PM, it's not enabled for me.

James

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2008, 02:24:47 AM »
   Hi James
  I sent you an e-mail. One or two others have had problems sending PM's on this forum.
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

James Roller

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2008, 06:26:58 AM »
   Hi James
  I sent you an e-mail. One or two others have had problems sending PM's on this forum.

I've replyed to your email, with the info you requested:)

By the way, a interesting thread you have going on here.  I'm a instructor in TWC, but have switched over to WSL method's for the last two years, and loving it.  Recently we had a seminar here with Ernie, and one of my former fellow instructors in TWC, he quit that a few years ago and has been training in WT, they use the sideling stances and pivot on the ball of the foot, when we played together he had problems with the constant pressure on his COM, and loved the seminar put on by Ernie.  Since then he has been training the things he has learned from there, and from the David P DVD's, and has found that they work quite well when he engages his fellow WT students/instructors, so much so that he trains exclusively in WSL now.  I'm doing a small seminar up where he lives in Calgary this month.  There is a time and place for everything I must say, but for now I am preferring the center body method, especially the way we do it in WSL, without raising the feet off the ground like TWC/HFY does:)

James

Thomas R. Reichert

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Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2008, 09:40:20 PM »
     Hi James,
 Calgary, huh, that's pretty close to my neck of the woods. Let me know if you or yours are ever coming to the coast. Seminar??  ;D
Hoy Sum Fu
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it

Thomas R. Reichert

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  • Wong Shun Leung...Li Man Kit
Re: The Secret Part 2
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2008, 12:30:23 AM »
Thank you for the info!
Thomas
First, you must fill  your head with wisdom...THEN you may break bricks with it